Chief Human Resources Officer, Etsy
“I often think that even if they don’t seem like they’re hearing you, you never know when that constructive feedback or advice that you give them comes in handy.“
What qualities makes for a mentor?
You know, I think a mentor really is someone who can show you what is possible, they provide support. They can help build confidence. They can give you self-awareness. They can open up connections. But the core is they give you a new perspective and they show you what’s possible.
How can mentorship help bridge the gap between the generations in the work space? With the challenges that come with the differences that we all have?
When you are a mentor, you have the ability to teach others. There’s moments where you share your knowledge, and in those moments you gain a deeper self-awareness of your own strengths and your own gaps. And through this self-awareness, there can be a lot of connection to someone else. So I think that is really the power of mentorship and having a mentee, there’s a deeper understanding from both the mentor and the mentee.
I think that level of deeper understanding can bridge a lot of the gaps that we see between the generational differences in the workplace. Many of the differences really are driven by miscommunication and a general misunderstanding or generalizations placed on particular generations. And so when you’re in a mentor-mentee relationship, it becomes a two way dialog. Through that connection, it fosters deeper understanding—and through that understanding, more alignment between generations can be created.
How does mentoring benefit the mentor? Is there anything you’d like to add in? Career-wise, intellectuality, spirituality, socially?
I think it’s just a matter of growth. When you’re open minded to what others can teach you. I got my coaching certificate and one of the things they would repeat is everyone is your student and your teacher. So I think mentors have this unique ability to be matched with someone who also can teach them. And I think in the process of asking questions to help them uncover their own strength and growth, you also can uncover more growth in yourself.
Given all the personalities and different ways that we learn, what are some of the things that you do to motivate your mentees? When you’re in a place where you feel you want to challenge them?
One of the most valuable things that I have done for some of my mentees is to ask them clarifying questions. And particularly, I think one of the questions that are most powerful are questions that actually help them identify why what they’re doing is important to them, because I think once they reach that level of clarity, it helps them build confidence and conviction.
And that becomes an intrinsic motivation and not a motivation that has to be written down on a checklist that they religiously have to check every day. When you can internalize your motivation, and really have it at your core so it drives your daily interactions and the way you just go-about your work, I think that is actually where you start to see the greatest levels of success.
With the knock-on effect of Gen Z’s, being too receptive to following instructions and being told what to do, do you believe in constructive criticism as a virtual means of mentoring and teaching?
Constructive feedback is critical no matter what your age. No matter what your tenure is in your career, it’s absolutely critical. I mean, someone who’s willing to hold a mirror up to you or tell you that you have spinach in your teeth, really cares about you. And I think that demonstration of care builds trust, and trust leads to empowerment, and empowerment leads to a lot of success. And so I think it’s all really connected to success.
It’s a massive difference. The way you present yourself, the way you conduct any form of communication, and asking questions, teaching them always to say don’t conform just because you feel that’s what’s expected, you know? Speak up. Because that’s how you’ll learn.
Yes. And I often think that even if they don’t seem like they’re hearing you, you never know when that constructive feedback or advice that you give them comes in handy. You never know when it actually does stick. Sometimes they’ll tell you, sometimes they won’t because they’re still processing it. I’ve definitely had moments in my career where I’ve heard something and in the moment I sort of disregarded it or didn’t think it was something relevant to me. But later, it really was something that was relevant and I was able to draw on that advice and even pass it forward. And so I think it’s important. Even if it feels like you are talking into a wall, that mentors continue to give constructive feedback and ask for it.
What was one of the best pieces of advice that you were ever given?
I did have an old boss tell me at one point—your career is a marathon, not a sprint. And it was in a promotion conversation that she wasn’t giving me at the time, so I’m not sure I really loved it at the moment, but later I really understood what she was saying. I really took it to heart, and slowed down and started paying attention more to what I was learning. I stopped paying attention to promotions. I just really did not care about them at all. I got so deeply ingrained in what I was learning that—it’s interesting. Once I stopped focusing on that altogether, I actually started to get promoted more.
It’s interesting how much you can learn and how many opportunities come in day-to-day work. In my line of work, I get to sort of see the movie and everyone operating from many different angles. So I do observe a lot of people being so laser focused on the thing that they need to do or produce, and sometimes missing that they could take advantage of the person they just got exposure to. Or what a benefit it is that they’re a fly on the wall in a meeting? You know, so many different things that people could take advantage of if they sort of lifted their head up and had a different perspective.
Who do you most admire and why?
This is a tough one for me because there’s a lot of women who have started things or changed roles that I really admire, to really famous women like Michelle Obama who did the First Lady job in a different way and is a working mom that I admire…to former bosses who were founders of companies, in their 20s and brilliant. A former boss of mine who went from HR to being a CEO, to an early mentor of mine, Tiffany Warren, who’s a chief diversity officer for Sony, and founder of AD Color. So I tend to admire really strong women who have taken a different approach to something with integrity or have founded something because it takes a lot of bravery to do that in a way that is true to your values.
What would you tell your 15-year-old self today?
Keep doing what you’re doing. All the experiences I’ve had all led to who I am now, and I like who I am. If I had gotten advice to do something different, who knows where that would have led. So I would say, keep doing what you’re doing.
Was there a defining moment or experience in your life that led you to where you are today?
Getting my coaching certificate from iPEC was a big moment for me because I had been coaching a long time in my career and had been working for a long time as an executive before doing so. And so I felt like by the time I got formally trained, I really was able to ground myself in the content, and apply it very quickly to my work. I started to ask much better questions, and I think a leader’s ability to ask great questions is sort of the key to success once you get to the highest leadership level.
Should higher education be prioritized over work experience? When we talk about mentoring and leadership, do you feel that’s important?
I think higher education is important. It can really provide perspective and deeper training. You know, one thing I would say, though, is I do think you get the most out of it after you’ve had a bit of working experience because it helps you select a program. It can help you narrow in on a concentration as well. But the mix of both can be pretty powerful.
What are one of your unbreakable rules in life?
I try not to miss bedtime with my kids. They’re only little ones. So certain things I just try to never miss.
What’s one of your biggest fears?
Losing my thirst for learning. I think the day I wake up and I just have no desire to learn anything new is a sad day.
Who do you yell at quietly in your head?
I try not to do that. I really catch myself when I’m doing it. Sometimes it can be after a tough conversation but, I don’t think it’s healthy to do that. And really, you only end up hurting yourself.
If you had a superpower, what would it be and why?
To be invisible. I would have an invisible cloak, like Harry Potter. Many times I’m coaching managers or employees on how to approach a particular conversation. I’d love to be a fly on the wall to actually see the conversation happen, because I always get the reply back, but I always wonder if it actually went like that and how helpful the guidance was.
What is the most challenging thing you’ve ever overcome?
Well, I had a fairly traumatic childhood. I’ll just say I was—both of my birth parents were gone by the time I was a sophomore in high school, and my brother was tragically killed. So by the time I was out of high school, I would say I had a pretty I had a lot of resilience built up.
However, when you’ve experienced any sort of trauma or sort of traumatic thing in life, it really gives you perspective. I do think that’s one of my strengths is I always have a pretty grounded perspective on things, and I can handle crises and sort of an ever evolving type of job, like HR pretty well because of it. So I have a real appreciation for tough times…I think there’s always something good that can come from it.
We had our in-person gathering at Etsy with my team last week, and there were a few, very deep and meaningful conversations I had with a couple of employees. They said, you know, this is such a refreshing conversation. It’s so much better than talking about the weather. There’s a lot of people, I think, who would prefer to not have small talk, and talk about the weather, because they’d like to have a meaningful conversation.